According To The variety SPOILER ALERT: The following interview contains spoilers from “Chapter Fourteen,” this week’s episode of “Pachinko,’ now streaming on AppleTV+.
“It’s been a very good week,” says a smiling Anna Sawai on the Thursday after her history-making Emmys victory. Having won an Emmy for lead actress in a drama — for her role as Toda Mariko in FX’s “Shōgun” — she became the first actor of Asian descent ever to win in the category, one of a record-breaking 18 total trophies for the drama’s first season.
But the New Zealand-born Sawai had only so much time to enjoy that Emmys high: She had to report back to work in Australia, where she speaks with Variety over Zoom while shooting Season 2 of the Apple TV+ series “Monarch: Legacy of Monsters.” in which she stars (alongside Godzilla, of course) in the lead role of Cate Randa.
However, it’s her other series that we’re talking about today, since Sawai is also a cast member in creator Soo Hugh’s period drama “Pachinko,” which is currently airing its sophomore season on Apple TV+. In the series’ 1980s timeline, Sawai plays ambitious businesswoman Naomi Ichizaki, who is currently in a relationship with colleague Solomon Baek (Jin Ha) — but we see their romance hit a major snag in this week’s episode.
Here, Sawai talks about her Emmys win, and gives insight into this week’s “Pachinko” episode — and discusses how playing Naomi has shown her what her own mother endured in the business world several decades ago.
I have to ask you some Emmys questions since it’s obviously very fresh. How are you feeling now, several days later?
It feels surreal. I don’t think I’ll ever get over the fact that our show made history. I know that it’s happened, but it’s such a big thing. When we went into shooting it, I didn’t expect for this to happen. And when people started talking and me being nominated, I was like, “There’s no way that’s gonna happen!” Life is so strange.
There was a lot of talk about you crying so much, even before your name was called. Is that just who you are, or could you just not keep it in?
I feel like everyone who knows me in my personal life has seen me cry. I get very emotional, but I wasn’t crying because I felt like it was going to happen or anything like that — I was crying from before the day even happened. When I met Kathy Bates, I was bawling my eyes out because she gave me a compliment. I also think it was just being nervous, and it was my first nomination. I was just being overwhelmed, I guess.
After the show, there are all the parties, but did you carry the statue the whole time? I know it’s rather heavy, and it’s big!
For every party that I went to, I was holding it. I don’t know why I did that, but my team was like, “No, just walk in with it. People are going to be happy to see you holding it.’ And so I did. Now I feel like my right arm is much bigger than my left, because I was holding it the whole night.
Which parties did you hit?
The one that I stayed longest was the FX one. So we had all the FX people, and all the people from the show. It was nice to just celebrate everyone’s work together.
Tell me about the whole awards campaign, which is a lot of work. Did you end up bonding with any of your fellow actors through all that?
Yeah, Nava Mau from “Baby Reindeer,” we met a couple times. It was just nice to see someone who was experiencing it for the first time as well. And then I also met Ayo Edebiri, and I think that she went through something similar and is at a different stage now. She’s maybe a couple years ahead of what I’m experiencing, and gave me advice. She knew exactly what I was feeling and how strange, but also amazing this is and what I can watch out for. Just very genuine, and I made a really good connection with her.
Between “Shōgun,” “Pachinko” and “Monarch,” these are all very big shows with big concepts. Is that by design, or is it really just the way things have fallen?
Maybe my team was being a little bit more tactful, but I never went into it thinking, “Oh, this is good because of this and that.” It was just reading the scripts, talking to the showrunners and feeling whether I connected with the character or not. What I love is that they’re all so different, but also they’re so important to me because they allow the audience to see Asian people in a different light. For “Monarch,” which I’m doing right now, I’m playing a Japanese American person, which I’ve never played before.
“Shōgun” is what it is, and with “Pachinko,” for the first time, I was able to really learn about my mom’s generation and how she was treated in business. Having Soo include a character like Naomi [who is Japanese] when it is a story about a Korean immigrant family, that meant a lot to me. And she was so supportive in telling that female struggle that we all know. I’m just appreciative that I’ve had the opportunity to tell our story in multiple different ways.
And your character in “Pachinko” is not in Min Jin Lee’s novel, right? She was created for the series?
Yes, Soo made a character, because she found the importance in talking about Japanese women during that time.
How important is the Naomi and Solomon relationship to her, given that her career is also a priority for her — but we see they’re butting heads in this week’s episode?
It’s incredibly important, because he is the only male figure to her that understands where she’s coming from, even though what they want is different and the way they execute things in their business is different. They have a mutual respect for each other and understanding — because they’re both misfits. Naomi is a woman in a male-dominant industry. He is a Korean and she’s Japanese in Japan, so I think they can feel each other’s pain. And so they bond in that way.
But it’s hard, because Naomi’s family wants something different for her, because they’re from an older generation. They don’t understand the bond between Koreans and Japanese. They are on opposite sides, so she’s trying to navigate that, and it’s hard because it is her family. She wants her family to want what she wants, and she can’t just push them away. Solomon doesn’t understand what she’s going through. He expects her, I guess, to choose one or the other. It’s very heartbreaking to see them fall apart, because I think that how they view each other is so genuine. But everything else is pulling them away from each other.
But his timing is also not great, because he ends things with her and then immediately asks her to do call in this loan, which she’s not going to do. Do you think she would have had a different reaction if the timing had been different?
I don’t believe she would have had a different reaction, because he’s giving her information that is new to her and she’s seeing his true colors. Whether their relationship personally was great or not, she would still have been shocked to find out about what he had done and what he’s asking for. The timing is strange, but I think that he was at that moment, like, “I don’t care anymore. This is what is important to me now.” I’m talking on Solomon’s behalf, and I don’t know what Jin’s going to say about it — but what is important to Solomon is this business. He just didn’t care anymore.
So now I’m worried for her. How big is this going to get personally and professionally?
We see how vicious the business and industry are to women. Women have to be perfect. They have to be twice the amount better than men, first of all, to be in the same position. They have to spend twice the amount of time to get there, and they make one mistake and it’s over for them. Whereas if this were a guy, they would get a second chance. And so we see how unfair the society is towards women.
It was only 40 years ago, but hearing stories from my mom and her friends, it just seems like they were treated one way and they were expected to act one way. It just makes me so frustrated. Soo is doing an amazing job by really making it feel real, and because of those struggles, we’re here now and we’re able to fight it more. But those women had to endure everything.
The costumes in the show — from costume designer Kyunghwa Chae — are fantastic. I know everybody’s talking about the “Shōgun” wardrobe, but can you also talk about your wardrobe in “Pachinko?” Naomi gets to wear some really stylish business suits.
I mean, she is a woman in the ‘80s, so we wanted to do the shoulder pads and everything — but we didn’t want her to be the typical eye-candy figure to the men. There was a time when we decided to bring it a little above the knee, then quite above the knee — but then we landed with just above the knee because we didn’t want her to sell her sexuality in the office, because that’s not her at all. It was intentional to choose these professional outfits. I got to wear some Chanel suits, which is amazing. The wardrobe is also something that shows her personality and is very, very professional. Outside of the office, we do see her wearing some cute outfits that are not the Naomi that we know in the office.
I have to mention how fun the “Pachinko” opening credits sequence is. I never skip through them, by the way.
Never. It’s just fun because I wasn’t part of the first season intro. I had a lot of questions, like “Am I supposed to dance as Naomi, or am I supposed to just dance as myself?” And they were like, “Just be yourself, because Naomi would not be dancing full on, big smile and twirling around.” It was nice to be on set and allow myself to just have fun with everyone.
One last Emmys question before we wrap this up. Do you have an idea yet where the statue will go in your home?
I don’t know, because I actually don’t have a perfect spot for it. I would have to buy a shelf where I can place my other award, because I was at the TCA Awards and I was awarded one of those so I have at least two to put on that shelf. Once I get back to Japan, I’ll probably try to figure out what I want to do.
Japan is home, right?
Tokyo and the States. I go back and forth so much that I can’t say one or the other. But family is in Tokyo, so I just like to go there when I’m not working and as much time as I can with my mom.
Also, I know you have a singing background from early in your career. Will we see you in roles where you’re going to get to sing? Because it just seems like a no-brainer, but —
I’m not that confident in singing, so someone would have to really make me feel like I can do it. But because I do have experience being in the music industry, I know that there’s a very interesting story to tell. I do want to maybe be part of a film musical.
It seems like they remake “A Star Is Born” often, so you can do the next version!
“A Star Is Born,” like, doing it after Lady Gaga? No, I couldn’t ever do that. But, yeah, one can dream.
